The 5th Age screenshots and update

Mr Brain

DM Mercury

Edit history:

DM Mercury: 2008-03-31 02:26:46 pm

2007-11-30 06:54:32 pm

Some buildings some people are working on:

DM Mercury: Character creation
Max: Toolbar, Terrain textures, Arnoth (modelling)
Cellmaster: Rocks, tunnels, swamp, newbie dungeon
Dersaidin: Forests, modelling, misc
Darknae: GUI elements, village
sirsting: Changing assignments
Mr Brain: SLACKING OFF (Terrain, Time bot- working but halted)
Mia Akemi: SLACKING OFF
Olive Man: NO INFORMATION
Setu Firestorm: ON LEAVE

Thread title:

Mr Brain

Edit history:

Mr Brain: 2007-11-30 07:24:47 pm

2007-11-30 07:03:37 pm

Someone made a post about the 5th Age being a scam. This thread is my reply to that. In their place I'd also be feeling scammed; In fact, I've been in similar situations before.

The truth is - Things are moving, but only a small amount of people are moving them, and they only began moving about two months ago. Before that, nearly nothing was done and the world was started and then scrapped multiple times for the duration of roughly eight months before it was decided to keep the current design.

Recently, mainly due to the efforts of Max and me (by this order) and the work of Max, Ders, Darknae and Cellmaster the first traces of the game are finally showing up in the world. We do need more staff, though. Also, we do not yet have a working bot or anything like that, and I really think Merc should try to give his part of the project a little boost. No matter how much the builders do, the world can't open without a game bot and some monsters to fight.

Merc did, however, spend some money to buy models and textures very recently, and so did Max and I.

NOTE: In the first eight months, the only useful work done (except by Merc) that wasn't scrapped was my uber awesome linux terraforming bot Berrain. This is freeware, download it here if you need it.

NOTE2: Yeah, all the screenshots you have previously been shown of buildings are fake (though they may have displayed models that were created for the game - and that counts as real work done). Only the inventory and equipment HUD screenshots and videos are real, and I assume that, at least, is working. The last we heard from Merc was that he was working in account creation.

Someone made a post about the 5th Age being a scam. This thread is my reply to that. In their place I'd also be feeling scammed; In fact, I've been in similar situations before.

The truth is - Things are moving, but only a small amount of people are moving them, and they only began moving about two months ago. Before that, nearly nothing was done and the world was started and then scrapped multiple times for the duration of roughly eight months before it was decided to keep the current design.

Recently, mainly due to the efforts of Max and me (by this order) and the work of Max, Ders, Darknae and Cellmaster the first traces of the game are finally showing up in the world. We do need more staff, though. Also, we do not yet have a working bot or anything like that, and I really think Merc should try to give his part of the project a little boost. No matter how much the builders do, the world can't open without a game bot and some monsters to fight.

Merc did, however, spend some money to buy models and textures very recently, and so did Max and I.

NOTE: In the first eight months, the only useful work done (except by Merc) that wasn't scrapped was my uber awesome linux terraforming bot Berrain. [url=http://www.andras.net/berrain/berrain.html]This is freeware, download it here if you need it.[/url]

NOTE2: Yeah, all the screenshots you have previously been shown of buildings are fake (though they may have displayed models that were created for the game - and that counts as real work done). Only the inventory and equipment HUD screenshots and videos are real, and I assume that, at least, is working. The last we heard from Merc was that he was working in account creation.

Stormchaser

2007-11-30 07:47:23 pm

Well, I have to say, I am surprised that you would actually stand up and admit running a scam. As you all know, Mercury posted those previous pics claiming they were real work done in reguards to already having something built and nearly ready to open. Add in the many comments in world that entire cities had been built and that great progess was made already, even in this comm, top line used to say testing was right around the corner, when in truth, not a single thing had been built yet. If not deceptive, downright lies, and quite probably criminal when you collect money under the understanding a working game was just about finished and would be playable in short order.

Kay.

Edit history:

Kay.: 2007-11-30 09:24:35 pm

2007-11-30 09:23:04 pm

I'm now more of an outsider than anyone else who posts here, so please forgive any ignorance in this question:

Age 4 had some good, major things done and also had some major problems. In what was are the good things being preserved and, more importantly, in what ways are the major problems being corrected?

For example, we had a major problem in Age 4 with Mercury not delivering. As I said then (and thus why I left in-world staff), the project will fail or succeed by the hand of the person in charge.

- - - - - - -

Edit: Oh, and Brain: Kudos for your honesty. I always respected you for that, among other things =)

DM Mercury

2007-12-01 12:30:14 am

we had started work on one set of ideas and shift our focus. though i think we are definitely on the same page again. i think we've had 3 rebuilds already.

so yes at one point they were definitely work that had been done, but things have changed a lot over the past 2 months.

i have been working on the bot. until two months ago i was about the only one doing something.

We will be getting things open as soon as possible, but we don't have the resources of a big company like EA. So it's difficult to do things as quickly as they would. This is still a project of free time.

One thing that might be important to realize is every month that goes by that we are not open is another month I am fronting expenses to keep it open for development. So I want to open as soon as possible.

Also some people have purchased citizenship in 5th age early. I have previously posted that all accounts will be from the date the game opens in addition to the purchase date.

I have also been trying to provide some entertainment by using the old bot to host a game in AW and in Spiral Matrix. so I hope these efforts are looked at too. I know some people have been making use of this.

As far as my current project with the bot, it is character creation. account creation has already been dealt with. The inventory system in the video is definitely real and does work. With character creation we are looking at a very customized character. Its a visual hud type thing. And going with one of the most requested features the ability to put your points where you want. Example Human has 10 in all stats and 20 points to spend. Versus an Elf may have 5 strength and 15 intelligence and 10 in everything else with 20 points to spend.

anything which has been previously posted is work which has been accomplished. everyone is a volunteer. we all have a similar goal. sorry if you feel the development here is slow, that's because it is. the reason the work was posted was to give a preview of what we have been working on and what to expect. Though pretty much if something is posted from this point on it's probably part of the game.

we had started work on one set of ideas and shift our focus.  though i think we are definitely on the same page again.  i think we've had 3 rebuilds already.

so yes at one point they were definitely work that had been done, but things have changed a lot over the past 2 months.

i have been working on the bot.  until two months ago i was about the only one doing something.

We will be getting things open as soon as possible, but we don't have the resources of a big company like EA.  So it's difficult to do things as quickly as they would.  This is still a project of free time.

One thing that might be important to realize is every month that goes by that we are not open is another month I am fronting expenses to keep it open for development.  So I want to open as soon as possible.

Also some people have purchased citizenship in 5th age early.  I have previously posted that all accounts will be from the date the game opens in addition to the purchase date.

I have also been trying to provide some entertainment by using the old bot to host a game in AW and in Spiral Matrix.  so  I hope these efforts are looked at too.  I know some people have been making use of this.

As far as my current project with the bot, it is character creation.  account creation has already been dealt with.  The inventory system in the video is definitely real and does work.  With character creation we are looking at a very customized character.  Its a visual hud type thing.  And going with one of the most requested features the ability to put your points where you want.  Example Human has 10 in all stats and 20 points to spend.  Versus an Elf may have 5 strength and 15 intelligence and 10 in everything else with 20 points to spend.

anything which has been previously posted is work which has been accomplished.  everyone is a volunteer.  we all have a similar goal.  sorry if you feel the development here is slow, that's because it is.  the reason the work was posted was to give a preview of what we have been working on and what to expect.  Though pretty much if something is posted from this point on it's probably part of the game.

Max

2007-12-01 03:01:56 am

This is a bit of a difficult thing to describe to people on the outside of the project.

Now I know there have been some things said and some rumors generated about the progress of 5th age. I dont see anything so far, however, that constitutes much of a scam. Every game goes through several revisions and changes, and often the end product will differ drastically from what you started with. That being said, I apologize if at any point a staff member gave the impression of more progress than was actually present. Rest assured it wont happen again. Also, all previous screenshots were, in fact, of actual areas that were completed. I myself am to blame for their subsequent scrapping, due to when I returned to the project I had some very disctinct ideas of where I wanted to take the world. In the past 2 months the project has come a great distance, and I believe it will be the best game you have seen yet from us.

All screen shots in this post are 100% authentic locations youll see in the game, and the same will apply to all future screenshots.

This is a bit of a difficult thing to describe to people on the outside of the project.

Now I know there have been some things said and some rumors generated about the progress of 5th age. I dont see anything so far, however, that constitutes much of a scam. Every game goes through several revisions and changes, and often the end product will differ drastically from what you started with. That being said, I apologize if at any point a staff member gave the impression of more progress than was actually present. Rest assured it wont happen again. Also, all previous screenshots were, in fact, of actual areas that were completed. I myself am to blame for their subsequent scrapping, due to when I returned to the project I had some very disctinct ideas of where I wanted to take the world. In the past 2 months the project has come a great distance, and I believe it will be the best game you have seen yet from us.

All screen shots in this post are 100% authentic locations youll see in the game, and the same will apply to all future screenshots.

Kay.

2007-12-01 03:09:28 am

A lesson to take away from this is to keep everyone informed of bumps in the road, else you leave the door open for speculation. Communication is an important part of any project.

Max

2007-12-01 03:33:11 am

Should there be any further long term delays, they will most assuredly be reported here. However, when you have a project as understaffed and, as a result, slow moving as ours, many small delays seem to stack up, making them very difficult to report.

Instead, I'll just do a monthly update thread. I'll post how much work as been accomplished in the prior month, the occasional screenshot and other such information of importance to our players.

Kay.

2007-12-01 03:38:17 am

Thank you =) Please, stick to it this time.

Mr Brain

Edit history:

Mr Brain: 2007-12-01 04:56:36 am

2007-12-01 04:44:37 am

I never wrote they were running a scam, Stormchaser; Just that they were a little unclear about their progress.

Quote:

I have also been trying to provide some entertainment by using the old bot to host a game in AW and in Spiral Matrix. so I hope these efforts are looked at too. I know some people have been making use of this.

I forgot to clear this point up. You seem to be angry that there are other worlds working which you cannot access, but the thing is, some people can, and I'm sure they are provided by Merc with the best intentions as a form of entertainment while the big game is being developed.

Quote:

As far as my current project with the bot, it is character creation. account creation has already been dealt with.

That's what I meant, sorry Tongue

Quote:

Also, all previous screenshots were, in fact, of actual areas that were completed. I myself am to blame for their subsequent scrapping, due to when I returned to the project I had some very disctinct ideas of where I wanted to take the world.

Max is being very honest here, since most of the constant redesigns were indeed his decision. However, since he's also working hard, unlike most others, I think we can forgive him for that Grin

Like I wrote, the screenshots released before the middle of October DID show completed work - models or HUDs - but they were definitely not completed areas. And they were fugly. I'm glad they were deleted. The current world is looking MUCH better!

Quote:

I dont see anything so far, however, that constitutes much of a scam. Every game goes through several revisions and changes, and often the end product will differ drastically from what you started with.

Every time you wonder about Age 5, just think of Duke Nukem Forever Tongue

Quote:

used to say testing was right around the corner

I estimate that if the concerned parties work seriously, they can have the world open for testing in two weeks. We only need character creation and monsters. NOTE that this doesn't mean "two weeks from now", it means "two weeks of serious work".

Quote:

This is still a project of free time.

I think this is the main problem here. I warned you in the beginning of the year about unprofessionalism in a project where you're charging people a lot of money. People are obviously going to get expectations, and worry about their 'investment' (it's an investment in their minds, whose return is supposed to be A Lot Of Fun). You can either make it very clear that this is a hobby project, and have less people paying for it, or remain silent and face the anger and outrage of some...

I never wrote they were running a scam, Stormchaser; Just that they were a little unclear about their progress.

[quote]I have also been trying to provide some entertainment by using the old bot to host a game in AW and in Spiral Matrix.  so  I hope these efforts are looked at too.  I know some people have been making use of this.[/quote]

I forgot to clear this point up. You seem to be angry that there are other worlds working which you cannot access, but the thing is, some people can, and I'm sure they are provided by Merc with the best intentions as a form of entertainment while the big game is being developed.

[quote]As far as my current project with the bot, it is character creation.  account creation has already been dealt with.[/quote]

That's what I meant, sorry :P

[quote]Also, all previous screenshots were, in fact, of actual areas that were completed. I myself am to blame for their subsequent scrapping, due to when I returned to the project I had some very disctinct ideas of where I wanted to take the world.[/quote]

Max is being very honest here, since most of the constant redesigns were indeed his decision. However, since he's also working hard, unlike most others, I think we can forgive him for that  ;D

Like I wrote, the screenshots released before the middle of October DID show completed work - models or HUDs - but they were definitely not completed areas. And they were fugly. I'm glad they were deleted. The current world is looking MUCH better!

[quote]I dont see anything so far, however, that constitutes much of a scam. Every game goes through several revisions and changes, and often the end product will differ drastically from what you started with.[/quote]

Every time you wonder about Age 5, just think of [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_Nukem_Forever]Duke Nukem Forever[/url] :P

[quote]used to say testing was right around the corner[/quote]

I estimate that if the concerned parties work seriously, they can have the world open for testing in two weeks. We only need character creation and monsters. NOTE that this doesn't mean "two weeks from now", it means "two weeks of serious work".

[quote]This is still a project of free time.[/quote]

I think this is the main problem here. I warned you in the beginning of the year about unprofessionalism in a project where you're charging people a lot of money. People are obviously going to get expectations, and worry about their 'investment' (it's an investment in their minds, whose return is supposed to be A Lot Of Fun). You can either make it very clear that this is a hobby project, and have less people paying for it, or remain silent and face the anger and outrage of some...

Stormchaser

2007-12-01 08:12:41 am

Just a word on this thread too I suppose, well, a few words. It has not been the fact the game is taking a long time to complete that is the issue really, I was told that it would be awhile, what frustrates me is I was also told there would be a version set up that would be playable til the main game was finished to the point of being tested and played, in whatever state is was, and if the effort and playability was there in SM where I could access it, I wouldn't have a word of complaint, if I had access to what others are getting for free, since I actually paid to play. The thing that chafes is knowing time and effort, and a more playable version is all being directed in a place I can't access, so I am left sitting on the sidelines while people who never paid a cent get to play a version much better than the scaled down version in SM. So yes, there's a level of frustration in now knowing I was decieved, which I firmly believe i was, even if you didn't come out and say I was scammed Mr Brain you admission that the screenshots that were posted to try to show the level of "current progress" were fake, that it was not the current state of progress, and as I refered to, the "News" header saying testing would start soon, both gave false impressions of the timeframe and development at that time. As I said elsewhere, I do feel there are some very dedicated people working here, and appreciate that and their efforts. I especially like that it's been stated, no more "fake" progress reports or pictures will be posted, that they will be clearly identified as true progress or prototypes and a clearer understanding and awareness of development will be had for all. I imagine you're all tired of hearing about this and I understand that too, so i will just let it go too, hoping there is some real progress soon, and thanking you all for the hard work you do, the effort you do put into this project.

Mr Brain

2007-12-01 08:38:22 am

Chill. I don't have access to the Flagg world either, so it probably won't turn out very good Wink

(Yeah, I'm so modest.) I'd also be annoyed if I knew that more effort was being put in the AW world than in Age 5, but to tell the truth I was never told that so far. Where did you obtain that information?

I'm sure some of my colleagues from the Age 5 development team are angry at me for taking this open stance on this subject. In fact, I'm well aware that it's incredibly unprofessional of me to do this. In any serious project, this would be grounds for my immediate dismissal. However, as Merc posted (not only in this thread but also in a post made last month, probably in the staff forum, I don't remember), he sees this as a hobby project more than anything. I think therefore that there is no reason for me to be professional about it. I have stated months ago that I am in this project more as an assistant than anything else and I have declined to take any administrative responsability mostly because of this. I have not been asked to comply to any sort of non-disclosure agreement, so I hope that you will agree that I am doing nothing wrong.

I'll try to be clear about the screenshots and beta-testing issues, as they seem to be Stormchaser's main concerns:

They were NOT fake screenshots, literally speaking - They were taken in-world and posted without any modification.
However, the world contents depicted in them were mostly a facade - there was never anything inside or around those houses.
I'm not sure whether or not those buildings were made specifically for the screenshots or if they were intended to be actual game buildings in the future - You'd have to ask Mia.
Moreover, the said contents were deleted since then.
That's what I meant by "fake" - They did show some (little) work, mostly from one or two modellers, but they are of no consequence to the finished game, like Max wrote.

The game has never been anywhere near ready to open for beta-testing, at least given the pace at which things have been done until October. This is not Merc's fault alone - there are parts of the game he is not in charge of. He may have honestly planned to start beta quickly, and later have found himself unable to do it. I know that if I was in charge of this game, it would already be open. But I am not, and since there are things I cannot change, I will not commit myself to it.

Is it a scam? I don't think so. I believe the problem here is that Merc didn't commit himself to this project as much as he should have. He got into a huge debt to buy the galaxy server, but he cannot dedicate enough of his time to the development of the game, so there is no return of investment. He needs to sell these pre-citizenships in order to cover the costs. I have to say, however, that I respect Merc for facing the facts and discussing this in the open instead of deleting/censoring this thread. Most people would have done just that.

Chill. I don't have access to the Flagg world either, so it probably won't turn out very good  ;) (Yeah, I'm so modest.) I'd also be annoyed if I knew that more effort was being put in the AW world than in Age 5, but to tell the truth I was never told that so far. Where did you obtain that information?

I'm sure some of my colleagues from the Age 5 development team are angry at me for taking this open stance on this subject. In fact, I'm well aware that it's incredibly unprofessional of me to do this. In any serious project, this would be grounds for my immediate dismissal. However, as Merc posted (not only in this thread but also in a post made last month, probably in the staff forum, I don't remember), he sees this as a hobby project more than anything. I think therefore that there is no reason for me to be professional about it. I have stated months ago that I am in this project more as an assistant than anything else and I have declined to take any administrative responsability mostly because of this. I have not been asked to comply to any sort of non-disclosure agreement, so I hope that you will agree that I am doing nothing wrong.

I'll try to be clear about the screenshots and beta-testing issues, as they seem to be Stormchaser's main concerns:

They were NOT fake screenshots, literally speaking - They were taken in-world and posted without any modification.
However, the world contents depicted in them were mostly a facade - there was never anything inside or around those houses.
I'm not sure whether or not those buildings were made specifically for the screenshots or if they were intended to be actual game buildings in the future - You'd have to ask Mia.
Moreover, the said contents were deleted since then.
That's what I meant by "fake" - They did show some (little) work, mostly from one or two modellers, but they are of no consequence to the finished game, like Max wrote.

The game has never been anywhere near ready to open for beta-testing, at least given the pace at which things have been done until October. This is not Merc's fault alone - there are parts of the game he is not in charge of. He may have honestly planned to start beta quickly, and later have found himself unable to do it. I know that if I was in charge of this game, it would already be open. But I am not, and since there are things I cannot change, I will not commit myself to it.

Is it a scam? I don't think so. I believe the problem here is that Merc didn't commit himself to this project as much as he should have. He got into a huge debt to buy the galaxy server, but he cannot dedicate enough of his time to the development of the game, so there is no return of investment. He needs to sell these pre-citizenships in order to cover the costs. I have to say, however, that I respect Merc for facing the facts and discussing this in the open instead of deleting/censoring this thread. Most people would have done just that.

Stormchaser

2007-12-01 08:54:03 am

I think you might have missed My other post so I'll explain it here Mr Brain. My main concern wasn't that the screenshots were "fake", which I still say they were, not because they didn't exist, but because they were represented as something they were not, a real working city in part of a game that was close to being ready to be opened. The same holds true for the "News" line that clearly stated that testing was nearly ready, which in your own statement plainly say was never ever the case. My conmcern and frustration has been of the fact that time and effort is being put forth in a version of the game, in AW in the Flagg world where i am not able to access it. I feel that with a lifetime membership already paid for, it should include access to the game where ever it is being presented. The fact that you don't have access to it may very well indicate it would be an inferior product, but still I suspect it's much better than what's in SM at the current time. As for the effort being put into something, I wasn't saying there was more effort put into the AW version than in the Age 5 version, thought from your comments, little or none has been done in Age 5 til just recently, so it seems to reason that actually, there was more effort being put into the AW version, but My point was that effort was being directed toward the AW version and none was in SM, yet I had a fully paid membership and wasn't able to access the part that had a real playable version of the game, even if it was a previous age. Just wanted to clear that part up some.

Mr Brain

2007-12-01 10:25:09 am

Well, there's still the matter of quality, though. Like Max wrote, the effort being put in the other worlds (other than by Merc) is mostly by staff members taking a break or (I suspect) old players fooling around in the AW world.

Now it remains to be seen what they're taking a break FROM... Lips Sealed

...Why do I feel like I'm making things worse here? Tongue

No, seriously, I disagree with staff members working in the other worlds at all. It should not be happening. Just remember, though - None of us is being paid. It's not like we have an obligation to do anything, we're volunteers. So basically they can do anything they want. If you want to pay ME directly, it will be my pleasure to work in the game for you. I can even write a game bot if I have a regular salary. But as long as I'm not being paid, I have my conditions for working, and in my case, it is feeling that everyone else is making an effort. Other people in the project have other motivations, which are unknown to me.

EDIT: Stormchaser, if you have any skills at all you are welcome to join us as a staff member. Then you can both see the world and make things move faster Smiley

Well, there's still the matter of quality, though. Like Max wrote, the effort being put in the other worlds (other than by Merc) is mostly by staff members taking a break or (I suspect) old players fooling around in the AW world.

Now it remains to be seen what they're taking a break FROM...  :-X
...Why do I feel like I'm making things worse here?  :P

No, seriously, I disagree with staff members working in the other worlds at all. It should not be happening. Just remember, though - None of us is being paid. It's not like we have an obligation to do anything, we're volunteers. So basically they can do anything they want. If you want to pay ME directly, it will be my pleasure to work in the game for you. I can even write a game bot if I have a regular salary. But as long as I'm not being paid, I have my conditions for working, and in my case, it is feeling that everyone else is making an effort. Other people in the project have other motivations, which are unknown to me.

EDIT: Stormchaser, if you have any skills at all you are welcome to join us as a staff member. Then you can both see the world and make things move faster  :)

Stormchaser

2007-12-01 10:47:04 am

~can't help but laugh at the suggestion of paying more money~

Ummm, I think I'll pass on that one, as far as sending any more money. As for helping out, I am somewhat skilled in creative writing and have messed with PSP 7 some, not sure I am good enough to be of any real help. I can paint a little, and adjust or alter pictures, add effects. Other than that, I'm pretty useless.

Setu-Firestorm

2007-12-01 11:41:29 am

The Mad Hylian Composer

I agree with Brain. Join the staff and help things get rolling a bit faster.

Now, I only speak for myself, so don't blame any staff but me for what I say here (`cause I really don't care if you don't like it).

If you paid for a membership to a game that you were previously aware was not finished, and being engineered by volunteers, and were aware that its progress was moving slowly and that any access to the world wouldn't really mean much since there's no real working areas, then with all due respect, who's problem is that? Granted, I don't think paid memberships should have been available at this stage, but even so, you paid for it. You can either look on the bright side and know that when it's complete, you're already paid for, or you can offer help to get things going and even receive some credit on top of that.

I just have to laugh when I see someone act like an ass over something that they were dumb enough to pay for prior to its completion. So yeah, you can hate me, but I speak on my own behalf. Anyway, I have better things to do at the moment, so I'm going to get back to them.

I agree with Brain. Join the staff and help things get rolling a bit faster.

Now, I only speak for myself, so don't blame any staff but me for what I say here (`cause I really don't care if you don't like it).

If you paid for a membership to a game that you were previously aware was not finished, and being engineered by volunteers, and were aware that its progress was moving slowly and that any access to the world wouldn't really mean much since there's no real working areas, then with all due respect, who's problem is that? Granted, I don't think paid memberships should have been available at this stage, but even so, you paid for it. You can either look on the bright side and know that when it's complete, you're already paid for, or you can offer help to get things going and even receive some credit on top of that.

I just have to laugh when I see someone act like an ass over something that they were dumb enough to pay for prior to its completion. So yeah, you can hate me, but I speak on my own behalf. Anyway, I have better things to do at the moment, so I'm going to get back to them.

Stormchaser

2007-12-01 12:08:41 pm

I don't know you or hate you, but too, see you're not reading or paying attention at all. I paid yes, for something that I was told and led to believe was nearly completed, was almost ready to be put into use. Was I foolish to believe what I was told, yes, thats a fact. Am I an ass for complaining that I was lied to, decieved, and am in My opinion, being shortchanged because I am not even allowed access to the degree that others who paid not a red cent are, I don't think so. So you can laugh, call me dumb, and go to do whatever it is thats so important to you, doesn't make any difference in whats happened at all, doesn't change the facts of what happened. If you can look yourself in the mirror and feel good about being a part of that, and then laughing, well, just like the mirror reflects your image, it reflects the kind of person you are. I wish you well in life Setu. As for joining a staff that many of the members that I know and respect say is pretty much disfunctional and poorly run, well, .....now that I think of it, I'm not all that talented and so might fit right in with some of you........but on second thought, I respect Mr Brain, Kay, Max, Mia and others too much to burden them with more dead wood so I'll pass on that idea.

DM Mercury

2007-12-01 12:39:36 pm

everyone with access to The 5th age currently is either 1) a staff member 2) paid subscription.

subscriptions are offered so that if you want to see what we are doing during development you may. It does not guarantee any actual game play time.

Also for life means, just that. If heaven forbid we change platforms (this late in the game) or what ever happens you are for life. Lifetime citizenships were created for 1 purpose. To repay the initial galaxy cost. that is why there are a specific number of them.

I have said this in previous posts that all early subscriptions will be receiving some sort of benefit in game. As far as distinguishing between lifetime and yearly as far as different rewards. I dont know at this time.

Regardless any money goes towards development costs and paying off bills related to 5th age. I am here for the long haul to make the game succeed and fun to play. If I have to do everything myself I will. If I am seen as a false prophet of sorts so be it, but my true actions and motivations would say otherwise.

everyone with access to The 5th age currently is either 1) a staff member 2) paid subscription.

subscriptions are offered so that if you want to see what we are doing during development you may.  It does not guarantee any actual game play time.

Also for life means, just that.  If heaven forbid we change platforms (this late in the game) or what ever happens you are for life.  Lifetime citizenships were created for 1 purpose.  To repay the initial galaxy cost.  that is why there are a specific number of them.

I have said this in previous posts that all early subscriptions will be receiving some sort of benefit in game.  As far as distinguishing between lifetime and yearly as far as different rewards.  I dont know at this time.

Regardless any money goes towards development costs and paying off bills related to 5th age.   I am here for the long haul to make the game succeed and fun to play.  If I have to do everything myself I will.  If I am seen as a false prophet of sorts so be it, but my true actions and motivations would say otherwise.

Stormchaser

2007-12-01 12:47:02 pm

Ok, you want to make a blanket statement and lock the topic, thats fine, but I will also make a last statement on the issue. I feel there are many good people working here, supporting this endeavor and do comment all for that. You say the AW world is exactly the same as the one in SM, I will accept that as a truth since I can't get in to see it in AW, but I will not accept your statement you didn't say those things. I was there, I was talking to you, I know you did say those things. Either you don't remember what you said or just want to put in a denial and close the subject, either way, I know what hapened and was said, and you do too, what you say here it totally up to you. I am of the same mind, nothing positive will be gained from continuing on this line of posts so it is time to end them. I do commend you Mercury for allowing the discussion and hopefully, the positive aspects of it as contributed by Mr Brain will somehow help focus the direction of the project. I wish you all well

Mr Brain

Edit history:

Mr Brain: 2007-12-01 12:56:32 pm

2007-12-01 12:47:55 pm

Stormchaser, they're different worlds. What you're doing is akin to hating on Peter Molyneux because you paid in advance for Fable and were not granted access to Black & White 2. If you buy an AW citizenship, which is NOT related to us in any way, you can access the world in AW. Otherwise, you can wait for the game you paid for to be finished. It is being developed, so you didn't really lose your money. It will just take longer than you expected. That happens all the time with real games. The fact that you insist on being angry about the AW world is making you lose all credibility. What do you want us to do? Take down the AW world? You'd only be harming other players like you. Are you that mean?

You say you only paid because you were led into thinking the game was nearly ready to go into beta-testing. I'm sorry, but none of us can do anything about that Undecided

Like I previously wrote, you paid the money directly to DM Mercury, who supports all the expenses of the world, servers, etc. None of that money is ever seen by any of us, we have nothing to do with it. You can try sending an e-mail to DM Mercury directly and settle this issue with him, but that money WAS probably put to good use by now and cannot be recovered.

This game is being developed by volunteers, but there are still other expenses associated to development that have to be paid, and that's what those citizenship sales were for. Of course, if the actual volunteers don't do their work, the game won't be completed and you will have lost your money. This is not the best business model, but unfortunately that's how things are. Fortunately for you, some volunteers ARE doing their work. Please trust Max, who you say you respect, and wait a little longer. Things could be much worse Wink

EDIT: THe two previous posts were made while I was writing this one.

EDIT2: I didn't suggest "paying" more money. I suggested (jokingly) for you to hire me. Pay me a salary, and I'll work for you Wink

I was only illustrating my point about volunteer-contributed work.

Stormchaser, they're different worlds. What you're doing is akin to hating on Peter Molyneux because you paid in advance for Fable and were not granted access to Black & White 2. If you buy an AW citizenship, which is NOT related to us in any way, you can access the world in AW. Otherwise, you can wait for the game you paid for to be finished. It is being developed, so you didn't really lose your money. It will just take longer than you expected. That happens all the time with real games. The fact that you insist on being angry about the AW world is making you lose all credibility. What do you want us to do? Take down the AW world? You'd only be harming other players like you. Are you that mean?

You say you only paid because you were led into thinking the game was nearly ready to go into beta-testing. I'm sorry, but none of us can do anything about that  :-\ Like I previously wrote, you paid the money directly to DM Mercury, who supports all the expenses of the world, servers, etc. None of that money is ever seen by any of us, we have nothing to do with it. You can try sending an e-mail to DM Mercury directly and settle this issue with him, but that money WAS probably put to good use by now and cannot be recovered.

This game is being developed by volunteers, but there are still other expenses associated to development that have to be paid, and that's what those citizenship sales were for. Of course, if the actual volunteers don't do their work, the game won't be completed and you will have lost your money. This is not the best business model, but unfortunately that's how things are. Fortunately for you, some volunteers ARE doing their work. Please trust Max, who you say you respect, and wait a little longer. Things could be much worse  ;)

EDIT: THe two previous posts were made while I was writing this one.

EDIT2: I didn't suggest "paying" more money. I suggested (jokingly) for you to hire me. Pay me a salary, and I'll work for you  ;) I was only illustrating my point about volunteer-contributed work.

DM Mercury

2007-12-01 01:20:50 pm

I want to provide 5th age for free, but I can't it's just simply not possible. I front a huge bill each month. I just want to eventually break even... even if it's 3,4, or 10 years from now. If that happens I am more than content.

i have said the things previously posted by me from the beginning and maintained those core ideas. if you interpret what i say as anything other than what i have said hundreds of times previous then to you i said different, however to me I have not.

above all else those are what we are here to maintain.

I am being flamed, but I will uphold the ideals on which before the mog website, before addrpg.org existed has always been based on. none of that has changed.

if i said things which were this disagreeable. they should have been an issue immediately, not 4 months later.

Setu-Firestorm

2007-12-01 01:45:25 pm

The Mad Hylian Composer

Maybe I should establish an understanding with you, Stormchaser. I don't take this project seriously, and I'll openly admit that. As a matter of fact, anyone working on a volunteer basis can't afford to take that project as highest priority when in fact we have lives and important things going on in them too. I'm scoring a film right now that may be a step-in-the-door for a future career, and that's important to me, not this. So I can be a part of this and look at myself in the mirror just fine because quite frankly I don't care about you any more than you'd care about me.

Again, I disagree that membership fees were enacted before there was any real progress made. Still, if we gave you access, then what? You'd log in, look around, come back on these forums and bitch that "Oh my God, why isn't there anything to do on this game yet?" So doesn't it make sense why you currently don't have access? There's not enough for you to have access TO, so why are you complaining about it? If you are okay with the fact that progress is slow, that there won't be any real advancement for a while, then what the hell are you complaining about? You want access to our 35-40% complete areas that you can wander around but not do much in? No? Then knock off this "irate customer" bull<censored>! Yes? Then you must not have better things to do with your time.

Maybe I should establish an understanding with you, Stormchaser. I don't take this project seriously, and I'll openly admit that. As a matter of fact, anyone working on a volunteer basis can't afford to take that project as highest priority when in fact we have lives and important things going on in them too. I'm scoring a film right now that may be a step-in-the-door for a future career, and that's important to me, not this. So I can be a part of this and look at myself in the mirror just fine because quite frankly I don't care about you any more than you'd care about me.

Again, I disagree that membership fees were enacted before there was any real progress made. Still, if we gave you access, then what? You'd log in, look around, come back on these forums and bitch that "Oh my God, why isn't there anything to do on this game yet?" So doesn't it make sense why you currently don't have access? There's not enough for you to have access TO, so why are you complaining about it? If you are okay with the fact that progress is slow, that there won't be any real advancement for a while, then what the hell are you complaining about? You want access to our 35-40% complete areas that you can wander around but not do much in? No? Then knock off this "irate customer" bull<censored>! Yes? Then you must not have better things to do with your time.

Max

2007-12-01 02:27:51 pm

Im not sure if you realize an important fact here Storm. The AoI worlds in SM and AW are complete and total rubbish. They are all based off Age4 models, textures, bot everything. If you think they are representations of Age5, that is completely incorrect. As with all games, no one is playing Age5, even if the bot were in working order enough to be played. It is under development, and all screenshots made so far are from a work in progress. I dont know how far my word travels, but I can assure you that all of those locations existed, and I know this because I myself ordered their deletion. As for the bot progress, I do not believe anyone was lied to knowingly. I will admit that Mia severly overestimated the time frame, and she should not have made such promises.

IF YOU SKIP EVERYTHING, AT LEAST READ THIS PART

That being said, I feel that to continue this conversation any further is beating a dead horse. There will be monthy progress reports and updates, and these progress reports will be fact checked to assure the information is accurate. Its high time we pushed past this situation and focus on what we are here for.

Im not sure if you realize an important fact here Storm. The AoI worlds in SM and AW are complete and total rubbish. They are all based off Age4 models, textures, bot everything. If you think they are representations of Age5, that is completely incorrect. As with all games, no one is playing Age5, even if the bot were in working order enough to be played. It is under development, and all screenshots made so far are from a work in progress. I dont know how far my word travels, but I can assure you that all of those locations existed, and I know this because I myself ordered their deletion. As for the bot progress, I do not believe anyone was lied to knowingly. I will admit that Mia severly overestimated the time frame, and she should not have made such promises.

IF YOU SKIP EVERYTHING, AT LEAST READ THIS PART

That being said, I feel that to continue this conversation any further is beating a dead horse. There will be monthy progress reports and updates, and these progress reports will be fact checked to assure the information  is accurate. Its high time we pushed past this situation and focus on what we are here for.

DM Mercury

2007-12-01 02:55:46 pm

stormchaser check PM

Stormchaser

2007-12-01 03:18:00 pm

I agree with Max and I checked the PM, all is correct in there Mercury, thanks.

~Puts my stick away and goes to find something else to do~